The Small Square Return with Ours & Others
An exclusive chat with band members Paul Chastain and John Richardson
One of the more underrated gems to emerge from 2023 was the second album from The Small Square, entitled Ours & Others.
The duo, comprised of Paul Chastain (Velvet Crush, Matthew Sweet, Tommy Keene) on guitar, piano, bass, synth and vocals and John Richardson (Tommy Keene, Jay Bennett, Gin Blossoms, Shoes) on drums and percussion, cut the album at Richardson’s own Drum Farm Studio, the converted 18th century granary in rural Wisconsin that birthed the first Small Square LP in 2015.
Only this time, the pair are accompanied by a versatile array of prolific friends. It’s a crew that includes R. Walt Vincent (Pete Yorn, Liz Phair), Jeff & John Murphy (Shoes), J. Caleb Means (New Ruins), Cory Wong (Vulpeck, Power Station, Jon Batiste), Adam Ollendorff (Will Hoge, Keb’ Mo’), Ryan Liestman (Demi Lovato), Kevin Gastonguay (Ariel Posen), John Moremen (Matthew Sweet, Orange Peels), Gary Klebe (Shoes), Jeffrey Underhill (Tommy Keene, Velvet Crush), Adam Beard (Will Hoge, Ruthie Collins) and Adam Fabrini.
What these guys have collectively crafted with Ours & Others is a modern American power pop classic that deserves your attention. It’s an album whose ghosts, which include Badfinger’s Pete Ham, Chris Bell of Big Star and especially alt-pop journeyman Tommy Keene (remembered in both song and spirit here), are prevalent across tunes like “Twenty-Third,” “Found Object” and a shimmering take on Keene’s 1984 number “Baby Face.”
Rock & Roll Globe caught up with Chastain and Richardson just before the holidays to ask them about the new album and what entailed its creation.
Ours & Others is out now on Farm to Label Records.
What is it about Drum Farm Studio that you feel defines the Small Square sound?
JR: It was a great starting place to put down ideas without a pressured timeline in a very comfortable and creative atmosphere. Having a setup where everything is miked up and ready to go, it was easy to try ideas in the moment.
I’d love to hear the story behind the album title Ours & Others. What is the meaning behind it?
PC: I chose the title from a list I keep of words or phrases that sound good or fun or seem potentially useful or inspiring. When my oldest daughter was a toddler, she was playing with some other kids in the yard. I asked what they were playing to which she replied “Ours and Others.” Then some years later, I nicked the phrase for a lyric for what would become the song “Tilt.” So from that point the phrase was hanging around and associated with the project, I suppose. I just liked the sound of it and the ampersand.
How do you feel The Small Square has grown between the first album and Ours & Others?
PC: The first record was a collection of ideas and songs drawn from different eras. Some were quite old and some were written or refurbished closer to when the record was initially released. Because the songs for Ours & Others were created during a shorter time period and because that time was years later than the first record, there were changes in method, studio, goals and life in general. All affecting the outcome. I think this record sees us trying to use bits of all the ingredients available to us nowadays.
How did you guys land the Murphy Brothers and Gary Klebe of Shoes fame for “Open Up”?
JR: I have been playing drums for the Shoes for many years and am a big fan of Jeff, John and Gary. Paul and I thought it would be a great idea to have them get involved on “Open Up” to add their legendary harmonies.
PC: The addition of their vocal parts and (Gary’s) lead guitar really sorted the song out for me. After initial tracking, I was having a little trouble figuring out where the song wanted to go but the minute I heard that Shoes vocal sound with the track, it seemed obvious.
What inspired you to choose “Baby Face” when deciding which Tommy Keene cut to cover?
PC: During the last two or three pre-COVID tours I did with Matthew Sweet, Tommy traveled with us and opened the shows doing an acoustic set. I had become reacquainted with his “Baby Face” song after running across it online. I started suggesting (daily) that Tommy include that in that evening’s set. He always refused and it became a kind of a running joke.
After he passed away, I felt that I wanted to record a version of this song but in a slower and not guitar-based arrangement. I think I initially did a version with Wurlitzer electric piano and sent that over to John who was in a session that day with bass player Adam Beard and guitar/steel player Adam Ollendorff, who kindly agreed to lend their talents to the track. Recording live with John on drums, they proceeded with a couple of takes of the song, playing along with the basic track I had sent. Upon completing the final take, as the notes and cymbals rang out and faded into nothingness, a small, tinny noise was heard in the studio. The source of the tiny racket turned out to be the phone of one of the musicians which was sitting unattended in the room where they had been recording. The device was playing a song.
The song was “Compromise” by Tommy Keene. I left it in the mix. If you know it’s there, you can just make it out.
AUDIO: Tommy Keene “Compromise”
What is your favorite memory of Tommy? Also, is “Can’t Let Go (Oh, Tommy)” about him?
JR: My favorite memory of Tommy…that is a hard one, there are so many. I played drums for him since 1991. He was a lot of fun on the road to tour with. One favorite was a two-week stint in Paris, with lots of great wine and sight-seeing.
PC: “Can’t Let Go (Oh, Tommy)” is more inspired by him (and the loss of him) than actually about him. The song was mostly written and kind of in a holding pattern for a while. I wasn’t able to tie it all together and bring it to a satisfying conclusion until I was hit with the reality of a world without TK. That’s when the title and the existing words took on a new meaning and I knew how to finish the lyric.
Pop radio has never been more interesting with the likes of Olivia Rodrigo and Taylor Swift ruling the charts. Do you listen to modern Top 40 at all? Are you a fan?
JR: Yes I do listen to modern artists, I don’t necessarily cling to the trends but appreciate the production and songwriters that are in this genre.
You both have such deep pedigrees in terms of the bands and projects you’ve been involved in throughout the years. Outside of the Tommy cover on Ours & Others, how often do you pull from your histories when performing onstage or even messing around in the studio?
PC: Pretty rarely, actually. When we convene to work on songs/recordings, our time together is so limited that I think we kind of just get to the matter at hand. I do have a list of songs by Matthew Sweet, Tommy Keene and other artist friends that I would like to cover sometime, though.
- Catching Stars With Richie Kotzen - August 22, 2026
- Trevor Dunn: From Mr. Bungle to ECM - August 20, 2026
- Wonderlick Reminds Us That ‘You Are Loved’ - August 19, 2026
You May Also Like
-
February 21, 2019 -
December 19, 2022 -
December 12, 2018
The Small Square guest list reads like an induction ceremony to the jangle pop hall of fame, but I want to add one more name to the list. I just listened to the Happy Forest EP by The Reverbs, a duo comprised of John Brabeck and Ric Menck, and it just totally holds up in that great way that Chastain’s best stuff does. Songwriting, singing, musicianship, spirit.
Ditto on The Happy Forest. I spin that platter once a year at least. There’s a band who should have recorded more LPs.
I’ve never seen this 1981 single. Can someone on Facebook ask Ric whether it’s actually a Reverbs record and there’s any way to hear it? https://www.discogs.com/release/24889817-The-Reverbs-I-think-of-Love
I’m no longer on FB but had fun seeing Ric play drums with Matthew Sweet (and chatting while he loaded the tour van) when they came to SOPAC a while back.