Love, Loss and End of World: An Interview With John Lydon

You never know what you’re going to get when you sit down and speak with an icon, particularly one as charged and canny as John Lydon. 

His public image, as it were, is one of provocation – sit through his infamous 1980 interview with Tom Snyder and try not to squirm! More recently, Lydon courted controversy by extolling the virtues and supporting the 45th president of the United States (some of us still aren’t ready to type out the name). Graying punks by the thousands puked into their porkpie hats – how is it that Johnny fucking Rotten could support the fascist policies and incoherent bloviation of a man like Trump? (When asked about this, he grins wide and winks and one can’t help but think of the final line uttered at the last Sex Pistols show: “Ever get the feeling you been cheated?”)

But time and circumstance can do a lot to change a person. And on this beautiful late summer day, spliff in hand and one of his own colorful paintings visible on the wall behind him, John Lydon comes across as thoughtful, amused, amusing, and somewhat surprisingly kind.  Chatting over Zoom ostensibly to push the latest Public Image Ltd. album, the wonderfully bracing End Of World (sublimely reviewed HERE by RNRG’s own Tim Sommer), it’s clear that he has more on his mind than simply flogging product. The former Johnny Rotten wants us to be kind. 

“I firmly believe that that’s why I’ve been put here,” he states. “To help others. It should be the focus of our lives. What else could possibly matter?”

It’s an earnest and disarming stance from the man who once proclaimed “No Future” as both a threat and a promise. But Lydon has dealt with a lot this year. On April 7th, Nora Forster – John’s wife of nearly 44 years – succumbed to the Alzheimer’s that had slowly been taking her away for years.

“She was the love of my life – the reason for everything,” he declares. “We had ups and downs like every couple, but she knew how to put me in my place and I knew exactly how far I could go and still stay in her good graces. She was the most beautiful woman in the world, all the way until the end.” 

Lydon has spent the previous decade caring for her – keeping her mind engaged and her body comfortable and doing the things that a doting husband does for the person he loves.

“It was always the small things that Nora appreciated – me taking her out into the sunshine when she felt well enough, or fixing the bloody toilet!” he laughs. “Seeing what she dealt with, with that fucking Alzheimer’s, how can I complain? ‘Oh, I didn’t win Eurovision!’ Boo fucking hoo!”

It’s the only time in our half-hour chat that anger seeps through, and it’s earned. But it doesn’t last long. 

“Y’know, the thing that losing Nora taught me is that you can take the most precious thing away and there is still enough goodness to keep going,” he replies. “You just have to shovel through the shit to find it.”

Which leads us to the new album. End of World careens through some of the most vivid music that Lydon has put to tape and it is an unreasonably strong effort from a band in its 45th year.

“I titled it End Of World for a reason – we have a choice as to how this place ends up, and we either give fuck all about it or we pull up our pants and give a shit,” he explains. “And even the title track, there’s hope there. Everyone prattling on about the end of civilization – that’s just the media and those who want that to happen. The rest of us are out here wanting to live. So the song and the album are kind of saying, ‘Fuck off with yer end of the world rubbish.’ Sometimes you have to just dance and enjoy the things that matter.”

And that spirit of irascible optimism is woven through the record, nowhere more than album closer, “Hawaii.”

VIDEO: Public Image Ltd. “Hawaii”

“That was written for Nora,” he proclaims. “At the end of a PiL tour we decided to stay in Hawaii and it was the most freeing experience. We could just ‘be,’ and the song is about remembering that feeling. I’m trying to use the words and the imagery to let my Babbie (Lydon’s nickname for her) see it and feel it again. That’s the thing that they don’t tell you about Alzheimer’s patients – you can’t bring up memories by asking questions. You have to just put them in it. (sings) ‘Here again, Hawaii…we’re here, you and me.’ Nora loved music and I would see her smile. She may not remember our trip, but she remembers the feeling. And it was an honor to do that for her.”

It is a heartbreakingly beautiful song, unlike anything else in the band’s catalog. And it had the chance to become potentially their most popular as well. 

Lydon and company decided that one way to get the beauty of the song to the masses was to enter it as a potential contender to represent Ireland in the internationally massively popular Eurovision Song Contest. “What could possibly be more warped that that? Johnny Lydon in a singing contest. The whole thing was absurd…which is why I did it!” There’s the contrarian Lydon we know and love.

“Really though, it was for her,” he responds. “I knew that we hadn’t a chance of winning – some stupid song about elves or la-di-da was going to get it, but it was a chance for Babbie to see me. For me to sing for her. She picked out my outfit for that, y’know.  This fucking pink suit, and she loved it. After the thing finished and I was back with her in Los Angeles at the house, I put it on and her eyes went wide – ‘That’s the one from TV!’.  She remembered and it brought her back to that time, not only the song but us together there. Worth every minute.” 

Lydon get’s wistful for a moment, his eyes a thousand yards away. “I lost my memory when I was a child. Meningitis. Couldn’t remember my name or my mum or dad’s. It helped me understand what she was going through. It was as if I had been prepared to take care of this beautiful creature. A blessing, really.”

Beyond the way in which it engaged his wife, “Hawaii” shows the strength of this current (and longest running) iteration of the band. Guitarist Lu Edmonds, drummer Bruce Smith and “new guy” bassist Scott Firth have backed Lydon for over 15 years and their interplay is intuitive and energizing.

“Yeah, this is the best version of PiL,” Lydon admits. “We like each other, so that’s probably why we’re so good (laughs). And they get what I am looking for. I am a benevolent dictator and the boys bring out the best in me. We can make some proper noise and also make you think.”

He plans on heading out on the road in the coming year, armed with an arsenal of new and old songs and a new purpose.

“I mean what I said before – we need to care about one another,” he proclaims. “It’s why we’re here and why we’ll still be here. And those who don’t like that can kiss my farting ass!”  

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Jason Perri

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