Anthony Pirog’s Steady Diet of Ambience

It’s a near-impossible feat to peg guitarist Anthony Pirog down into a single genre-specific box. 

Over the last decade-and-a-half, the D.C.-based six-stringer has been all over the map, shredding faces, fret-hopping and pedal-stomping his way to guitar hero status. A classification-defying player who invokes Nels Cline, Marc Ribot, Henry Kaiser, Elliott Sharp and the late great Danny Gatton, often all at the same time, Pirog in recent years has broken away from that pack of groundbreakers and forged his own unique path.

Sure, Pirog has stayed tried and true to his avant-jazz proclivities, having offered up Pocket Poem in 2020 with bassist Michael Formanek and drummer Ches Smith and as a member of his creative and life partner Janel Leppin’s Volcanic Ash ensemble, not to mention the duo they share, fittingly named Janel & Anthony.   

 

 

The thing is Pirog isn’t prone to sliding into one niche and staying in his comfort zone; he’s constantly evolving and experimenting with new directions in sound. A game-changer for the guitarist was hooking up with the legendary rhythm section of post-punk icons, Fugazi. In The Messthetics, Pirog, bassist Joe Lally and drummer Brendan Canty unload a Sonny Sharrock’ian punk-jazz firestorm that makes you forget Fugazi remains in seemingly forever indefinite hiatus. Then there’s Pirog’s experimental side, evidenced by his paint-peeling solo guitar ear-bleeder titled tm. A thunderous and rumbling sprawl of harsh noise, Pirog’s wall of sonic sound is so abrasive that it rivals early Wolf Eyes and Hair Police on the jacked-up volume scale. 

On his most recent effort, Pirog has switched creative gears once again, thereby showing his protean nature. 

The Nepenthe Series Vol. 1, dropped by the on the rise label Otherly Love at the end of 2023, finds Pirog dialing down the deafening noisescapes of tm for mind-altering and gorgeous ambient vistas. Each meticulously constructed shapeshifter that makes up The Nepenthe Series Vol. 1 grip at the senses with feathery textures, otherworldly patterns and guitar heroics that are purely next-level. However, Pirog couldn’t have pulled off the magic without the A-listers that he recruited to help realize his vision. Each of the album’s nine tracks (with the exception of one solo entry courtesy of Pirog) feature a collaborator of the highest order who Pirog has crossed paths with one way or the other. And when I write “highest order,” I mean it. From superstar names like Andy Summers of The Police(!) and Red Hot Chili Peppers’ John Frusciante(!) improbably partaking, Nels Cline of Wilco, Brandon Ross of Harriet Tubman to avant-jazzers Wendy Eisenberg, Luke Stewart, Ryan Ferreira and Pirog’s wife Leppin, Pirog’s ambient record is a clinic in collaboration–and incredibly all pieced together remotely. 

The Rock & Roll Globe had the pleasure of doing a deep dive with Pirog on Zoom from his D.C. home to talk how The Nepenthe Series Vol. 1 all came together, how he came to know Summers and Frusciante and more.   

 

(This conversation has been edited for length and clarity) 

 

Being familiar with your eclectic career arc of delving into myriad styles of music including jazz, punk and harsh noise, I’m wondering how the idea of doing a record like The Nepenthe Series Vol. 1 manifested? That being said, this is not necessarily new territory for you; you have experimented with ambient guitar music, too. 

Anthony Pirog: I’m happy you mentioned some of those things because this kind of started with tm, that solo harsh noise record I did, because I’ve always tried to mix everything up and mix genres together. For that record I really just dove into just that approach and that’s what I was going for here, too [on The Nepenthe Series Vol. 1]. Instead of taking the ambient elements and putting them in and using them with other styles, let’s just see if I can make an ambient record. Also, aside from working with Janel because we could collaborate all the time and before I started working with the Messthetics, I was doing a lot of composing and I had to get the music together on my own in my room. But once the Messthetics started, collaborating is a lot more of a focus for me [laughs] because it’s fun to bounce ideas off of each other. 

 

So you took inspiration from the collaborations with Janel and then with the Messthetics for The Nepenthe Series Vol. 1 instead of locking yourself in a room and doing everything by yourself. 

I was at home and I recorded the only solo track “Bernal Heights” [on The Nepenthe Series Vol. 1] on my laptop at the kitchen counter and I thought it was cool. Then it occurred to me that it would be interesting to do an ambient recording because I had just done this harsh noise thing, which is the opposite end of the spectrum. Then I thought, “Well, I’ve met all of these really cool people that I admire. Maybe I could do a duos record, kind of like Jim Hall?   

Very cool idea. 

Well, what if I do that with ambient music? [laughs] Let’s see if anyone’s interested. And basically everyone I asked said yes. 

 

I am certainly going to ask about the collaborators on the record because they all have serious star power but first I wanted to ask about the recording process. Did you record your parts and send them over digitally then piece it all together when they sent their parts back to you? I imagine it was done online and not a studio creation. 

Yeah, it was all remote and part of the fun for me was I asked everyone to record something and give it to me. I had no other guidelines that it had to be “ambient”–in quotes. I know everyone on this list does almost every kind of music; they’re all extremely creative. I knew they’d understand what I was going for and I wanted them to send me something that would reflect their personality and then the fun for me and the challenge would be to respond to it and try to figure out something to put on top of it [laughs] because everyone sent something that functions a little differently. 

 

Every track has its own vibe. Andy Summers’ contribution is built on a huge, spacey riff while Wendy Eisenberg adds a kind of rumbling noise. It’s cool because it keeps you guessing on what the guests are doing and what you’ve added to the tracks. 

Absolutely. With those two examples, I had to use two totally different approaches because Andy sent me a song structure and it was a chord progression, it was in time and it was just very clear to me immediately that I’m going to be the melody player here. There’s space for that so that’s what I did. I basically improvised the melody on a voice memo and then kind of learned it and tweaked it and recorded it. 

But then with the Wendy track, that wasn’t exactly what I was expecting. It was very interesting for me because I had to figure out what to do. It led to results that I wasn’t expecting, and again, that was kind of my goal. It was to push myself based on what these people submitted. I think I listened to Wendy’s track for a few months before I really understood what I needed to do and then I just wrapped my head around it, conceptually. I just plugged in a chain of effects and did one pass and then it was done. 

But with Wendy’s track and others, it’s not like I just sat down and improvised; I would sit here and try ideas. For instance, the John Frusciante track, what I added was was my fourth attempt, a response. So, I really tried to craft it so that it would be a nice listen and something that I would would want to hear. That was important and I could do that since I was recording here in this room on my laptop. I’m not really sure how everyone else recorded it. I don’t think anyone went to a studio. I just asked if they had a home setup and they recorded themselves.  

 

Was there a back and forth or you just worked with whatever they sent and that was the final thing? Then you and Janel did their your magic with the finished product? 

Yeah! Wendy was the only person I contacted because I think she sent me a stereo mix and I wanted the separate tracks so I could mix them a little bit. Then we got to talk about that track and that was also very helpful because understanding where she was coming from was just very interesting to hear. 

 

Many of the players have been in your orbit for quite some time. How did you go about picking and choosing who you wanted to collaborate with? Did you have a wish list? 

No, these are the people that I asked and they all said yes. It worked out. But Andy is the one person I’ve never met in person. 

You have Hall of Fame caliber players like Nels Cline, Wendy, Luke Stewart, Brandon Ross and more but Andy Summers of Police fame guesting on the record is superstar level. How did you score that?

I woke up maybe ten years ago, nine years ago and on Facebook, I was linked to one of his interviews and in the interview he said I was his favorite current guitarist, which was a total shock…

 

Whoa. 

…so I contacted the journalist, I got Andy’s publicist information and I said “Here’s my contact if he ever want to be in touch.” And he got in touch. 

 

That’s a long time ago and ten years you were kind of just starting out, too, and you were Andy’s favorite current guitarist? That’s trippy.

I was brand new! It was cool because he called me and we talked and it was really fun to talk to him. I sent him emails occasionally and then at some point I asked him if he wanted to do some remote duo recording and he said yes so we started doing that. Then the Messthetics started and that got in the way. But that made me know that it was possible to reach out to people and that’s how I met Andy. 

 

Andy is just not known for The Police. He’s been all over the map, stylistically, plus he has a jazz background. He has tons of records under his own name, soundtracks and guest work. How did Andy discover you?

I think he told me he saw me in Guitar Player Magazine, and around that time, I had a feature for the Janel & Anthony record (2012’s Where Is Home). I think he found out about me through that and then checked out the record. I mean, he’s just a really cool guy–he’s checking out music from magazines?! [laughs]

We talked about current effects and he’s all into sound. That’s the thing about the song he plays on on the record (“Inflorescence”): the sound is amazing with the arpeggiated spread delays and the stereo delays. That’s really inspiring to me–the commitment to what the guitar can do, sonically. He’s just a really creative person. The first record I heard in music school was his record where he plays Monk [Green Chimneys: The Music of Thelonious Monk]. 

 

It must not only be inspiring but intimidating to have a common bond and collaborate with someone like Andy. His guitar work in The Police is basically forever ingrained in the annals of popular rock music. 

Absolutely. I mean, to be in touch with these these people…at first it’s very intimidating but once we start talking, it’s like, “Oh, we have the exact same interests!” [laughs] so it was easy to just have a nice conversation. But yeah, his (Summers’) guitar parts will forever live in my head and lots of people’s heads–that’s crazy. But even in the past couple of years, I think he released a record called Harmonics of the Night and it’s just incredible, solo guitar stuff and he’s using crazy sounds and it’s just extremely creative. It’s just inspiring. 

 

I take it you’re a big Police fan, too. 

I’ve been hearing this music my whole life. To me, [to collaborate with] some of these people, it just never seemed possible. It never seemed possible when I met Nels, too. And when you do meet them, they’re usually really nice people. 

 

Not only do Andy and Nels guest on the record but also John Frusciante of the Red Hot Chili Peppers. He’s another guitar hero. How did your paths intersect? I read you met him at a Messthetics gig?

He did some playing with Joe (Lally) and they’ve been friends for a long time and he came to see us. I know he came to Zebulon, that’s where I met him. He came down to the green room and was just hanging out a little bit but we didn’t talk much and then he came to to see us at Coachella. I guess he’d be there every time we played L.A. He just was really nice with the guitar playing [for The Nepenthe Series Vol. 1 ]. It wasn’t easy to ask anybody to do this but I just figured anyone who didn’t want to can say no… 

 

Totally. 

…and when I asked Andy, he was like “That sounds like a great idea.” When I asked John, he was like, “Yeah, I’d love to do it” and they sent stuff almost immediately. Again, it’s like John does a certain thing but I’ve also been following him for decades and he’s just a very creative person. He did an electronic record that came out three years ago—that was really good. All the drum programming he was doing, the sounds of the synths…I really respect that. 

The Chili Peppers have been through a lot of guitarists, but everyone praises John’s guitar playing as the band’s best iteration. Did you grow up with them? 

When I was very young, there were solos of his that really meant a lot to me and even thinking about it now, there’s a solo, and I think the song is called “I Could Have Lied” on Blood Sugar Sex Magik. It’s a mix of all my favorite things. It’s an amazing solo–it’s got an amazing distorted tone, it’s got attitude, it’s pentatonic-based, he’s using modes, the phrasing…it’s still just one of my favorite songs. It’s all over the place and it’s like any kind of memorable guitar thing that lives in your head. It’s a very special thing to me. 

 

It’s really cool that the Chili Peppers are selling out stadiums all over the world and John is playing on your ambient record. 

Well, you don’t have to tell me! 

 

[Laughing]

We went to see them when they were here, Joe and I went, and we got to be on the side of the stage. It was incredible to see them because when John and Flea play duo and to not be far away but up close and being able to look out and see how many people in the audience, they are just jamming. They are improvising in front of 40,000 people. 

 

I’ve never experienced that, to be on the side of the stage for a big show. It must be sick. 

We got to see John after backstage and the first thing he asked me was like, “Hey, is the label releasing the ambient record?” 

 

[Laughing]

He just played a big concert! But I was like, “No, not yet, but we’re going to get it out.” It’s just really nice to talk to people because we share the same interests even if things aren’t functioning. 

 

Were pieces on the record more challenging than others for the pieces to come together?

They were all challenging in their own way and that’s what I was asking for. Even if the approach was more obvious to me, like with the Nels thing: When I heard his piece, I was like, “Okay, this is a perfect ambient guitar thing as is. How do I not ruin this?” [Laughing]

He’s a very important guitarist to me and I’ve known him for quite a while now. But for that track, I was like, what I want to do is I want the two of us to sound like two hands on the same instrument. Just even having that approach was challenging because I didn’t want to step out or or pop out too much; I really wanted it to blend.

Then there’s your wife and bandmate Janel, who plays on one track plus she also produced the record. 

I should talk about Janel’s track and Janel produced this so I do need to say that that was really a huge help. It’s really hard to be in your room and try to conceptualize everything and without any feedback so to have her available to tell me, like, “Oh, this is cool” or “you should try this” or “that sound isn’t quite right, you need to make it a little bit more like this.” She’s the only person I really trust so it would have been far different without her input. And her track, especially, she’s playing pedal steel guitar…

 

I was actually wondering what Janel was playing because her main instrument is cello. Pedal steel guitar isn’t her chief instrument, right?

No, but she has studied with Susan Alcorn for many years and she has one of Susan’s pedal steels in the basement. It’s heavily processed [on the track]. She recorded it with Randall Dunn. I don’t know how they got the tones. It’s a beautiful chord progression that’s pulling in a harmonic rhythm that’s unpredictable. But I was going for the full guitar synth because I knew the New Age approach [laughs] and she was like, “Anthony, you’ve already done that. No, no, no. Why don’t you just play guitar on this?” and I was, like, “I don’t want to but you really should.” I did a take and she came back and she was like, “You should really just try to make the guitar speak.” I didn’t really know what to do but that forced me to really get in there, like every phrase mean something and I just try to react to the chord changes. In the end, I’m really proud of that track but she pushed me out of my comfort zone.

 

The record certainly doesn’t sound like it’s home-recorded. It has a big studio vibe. 

I had the same reaction because I did it on this laptop, I was just sitting at my desk. I have an Ox Box, which I can put my amp head into that and it just goes right to my computer. But I do want to shout out Mike Reina who is our recording engineer. I sent him the tracks and he mixed and mastered it and once he mastered it, it just sounded huge. I can’t believe this is essentially a home recording. I got really lucky. 

 

The Messthetics is loud and aggressive. For this record, did you just feel like you wanted to dial down the volume and explore a decidedly different vibe? 

Maybe. But it’s usually more like how I’m feeling. It’s not like I was making tm because I was like, “I feel great. Let’s make a harsh noise record.” 

I feel like this was something that would be fun for me and I wanted to figure out how to work with these people that I’ve met over the years I’ve been playing and have it not be demanding and not asking too much. So that’s why a single track seemed doable and I also like the idea of having a list of guitar players like this playing as minimally as possible [laughs]. It’s like, “Why would you do that if you had all these players together?” And I was like, “Exactly.”